alright, fine. you got me to bite. But ken, from what I hear you always are tooting your horn,(as little as it is). you must have caught me on the right day. but , thanks to you and barb for all that you do for disc golf in the area. even though I'm sure you don't hear it enough,I just remember back when we really only had riverside (best course) and nothing much for plastic. we come a long way because of a few key people such as yourselfs and now the youngins are following nicely. good work to all of you!!